[Release Date: July 20, 2021] When it comes to the possibility that video games might harm kids, a common and classic position is that game companies aren’t the ones responsible here. It’s the parents job to make good decisions on behalf of their children, and to protect them as necessary. If children do get harmed, the problem is lazy parenting – parents just not doing their job.
How sensible is this view? How far do the responsibilities of parents go?
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
00:03:06.420 –> 00:03:14.670
Shlomo Sher: All right, Andy so so kids are there, the classic vulnerable vulnerable population and we’ve talked about this idea of vulnerable population before right.
44
00:03:15.090 –> 00:03:16.650
Shlomo Sher: So the idea is right.
45
00:03:17.340 –> 00:03:22.650
Shlomo Sher: They they may not be competent right to big decisions in their best interest right which is.
46
00:03:22.950 –> 00:03:25.290
A Ashcraft: We assume that we assume that they are not right.
47
00:03:25.920 –> 00:03:42.930
Shlomo Sher: Right, you know we limit what they can do in many ways right and we normally think that hey look parents are there and the job of a parent is kind of to make the decisions for them until they’re old enough to really understand what’s going on and make their own decisions.
48
00:03:44.610 –> 00:03:51.090
Shlomo Sher: So what does that mean in video games right, so the whole point is, we you know we.
49
00:03:52.770 –> 00:04:03.150
Shlomo Sher: Stop kids from doing things because there might be harmed, so what kind of harm is that we’ve been talking about video games, so I was thinking of four right and maybe you want to add to these.
50
00:04:04.170 –> 00:04:20.250
Shlomo Sher: And so maybe that there’s a you know certain kinds of violence i’m thinking of the kind of violence, you might gain in in a game like manhunt right what’s kind of this really hardcore violence, maybe they might disturb child psychology.
51
00:04:20.700 –> 00:04:26.790
A Ashcraft: Right sure or make them more susceptible to violence of you know, to committing acts of violence of their own or.
52
00:04:27.450 –> 00:04:27.840
Shlomo Sher: Right.
53
00:04:28.290 –> 00:04:33.240
Shlomo Sher: So notice, even if, even if it doesn’t maybe might really bother them in some other way.
54
00:04:33.600 –> 00:04:35.940
A Ashcraft: Right, it could give them nightmares or.
55
00:04:37.170 –> 00:04:37.530
Shlomo Sher: yeah.
56
00:04:38.550 –> 00:04:39.630
Shlomo Sher: or whatever would be.
57
00:04:40.800 –> 00:04:42.420
A Ashcraft: Anxious some way yeah sure.
58
00:04:42.450 –> 00:04:43.650
A Ashcraft: make them, we can imagine.
59
00:04:43.920 –> 00:04:53.070
A Ashcraft: We can imagine all kinds of ways that this might might affect the kids mind because kids minds are malleable they’re still learning there so figuring out how the world works.
60
00:04:53.280 –> 00:04:53.700
Right.
61
00:04:54.780 –> 00:05:05.850
Shlomo Sher: Okay, so second one is okay so exposure to sexual themes and notice i’m saying sexual themes not really it’s not really about sex, for me, though.
62
00:05:06.180 –> 00:05:14.130
Shlomo Sher: It could also be about sex, but you know harmful beliefs about sex so i’m thinking let’s say about you know raping games and stuff like that.
63
00:05:14.340 –> 00:05:24.090
Shlomo Sher: Sure right they could develop harmful believes about sex about their bodies like in the plastic surgery game, and maybe about consent or how to treat their partners.
64
00:05:24.600 –> 00:05:38.430
A Ashcraft: that’s right that’s right and, but this is one of those, this is one of those topics where there’s this huge Gray scale in the middle right there are a lot of hand wringing goes on about what kind of sex is okay, what kind of sexual.
65
00:05:40.380 –> 00:05:43.080
A Ashcraft: Things that that kids are should be allowed to see.
66
00:05:43.440 –> 00:05:45.330
Shlomo Sher: Right yeah.
67
00:05:45.570 –> 00:05:51.810
A Ashcraft: And some of it seems quite quite ridiculous on its surface, but some people feel very strongly about this.
68
00:05:51.990 –> 00:05:54.570
Shlomo Sher: As a parent that’s very hard to judge.
69
00:05:55.290 –> 00:05:55.980
Shlomo Sher: You know.
70
00:05:56.010 –> 00:05:58.050
A Ashcraft: There was something in the news just recently about.
71
00:06:00.210 –> 00:06:04.560
A Ashcraft: Some women getting very upset about a lesbian couple kissing in a pool.
72
00:06:06.270 –> 00:06:07.710
A Ashcraft: Because there were kids nearby.
73
00:06:08.820 –> 00:06:18.840
A Ashcraft: Right and so that ends up being just a way to like you know bash lesbians, you know for for a kind of a kind of relationship you don’t approve of.
74
00:06:20.220 –> 00:06:30.960
Shlomo Sher: Right, though in many parts of the world that is kind of the the specifically the idea I mean that’s why you’re you don’t have those kinds of characters let’s say in Games in China.
75
00:06:31.500 –> 00:06:39.270
Shlomo Sher: Right right because they’re considered you know to potentially be too risky for kids even though let’s say it’s not illegal to be a lesbian.
76
00:06:39.990 –> 00:06:51.900
Shlomo Sher: Right um but the other these other things also this idea about you know their bodies right how to think about your body, and this idea about a treaty your partners right the lessons about.
77
00:06:52.230 –> 00:07:05.460
Shlomo Sher: about sex relations that you might get some games notice, those are very you know those are things that are, as you said, really hard it’s really hard to try this very strict line very clear line.
78
00:07:06.000 –> 00:07:09.540
Shlomo Sher: Of what’s appropriate for for kids and for kids of what ages.
79
00:07:09.930 –> 00:07:10.320
Right.
80
00:07:11.790 –> 00:07:15.510
Shlomo Sher: Okay, then we have stuff that we’ve talked about before, which is the excessive gaming stuff.
81
00:07:15.720 –> 00:07:16.050
A Ashcraft: mm hmm.
82
00:07:16.140 –> 00:07:16.590
Right.
83
00:07:17.730 –> 00:07:29.880
Shlomo Sher: right if you get addicted if you end up playing too much right that could mess up other parts of your life, it could you know mess up your school physical activity lead to family conflict right.
84
00:07:30.300 –> 00:07:30.690
Shlomo Sher: Right.
85
00:07:31.500 –> 00:07:35.430
A Ashcraft: And and it’s and it’s interesting too because you’re you’re a parent right so.
86
00:07:35.700 –> 00:07:40.980
A Ashcraft: If you bought a toy, for your kid that became his favorite toy, and he played with it all the time.
87
00:07:41.070 –> 00:07:47.670
A Ashcraft: Right it wouldn’t bother you you because i’m psyched that you found like oh my gosh I found the perfect toy for my kid.
88
00:07:48.120 –> 00:07:51.480
Shlomo Sher: It all depends it all depends on what the toy does.
89
00:07:52.020 –> 00:07:59.520
Shlomo Sher: Okay, and and I think the same would be the same would be, but it also depends on how much the toy was interfering with the rest of my kid’s life.
90
00:07:59.850 –> 00:08:00.990
Shlomo Sher: hmm right.
91
00:08:01.170 –> 00:08:06.900
A Ashcraft: So true like if he if he couldn’t he couldn’t pay attention in school because he just wanted to play with the toy.
92
00:08:07.230 –> 00:08:15.120
Shlomo Sher: Right right so that’s you know at that point, or we had family conflicts, all the time right about it right.
93
00:08:16.500 –> 00:08:24.300
Shlomo Sher: Okay, and then, finally, the financial harm right so anything having to do with money is obviously potentially dangerous for the kids and to the family.
94
00:08:24.750 –> 00:08:33.600
A Ashcraft: right we assume that kids don’t understand money until they’re older until they’ve started to to get a sense of what $1 is worth.
95
00:08:34.020 –> 00:08:41.580
Shlomo Sher: right and just like everything else because kids are all different some kids understand money fairly well what some kids don’t understand it at all.
96
00:08:41.880 –> 00:08:42.660
Shlomo Sher: Right right.
97
00:08:43.770 –> 00:08:55.020
Shlomo Sher: Okay, so this is the kind of concern here so what’s when when people talk about lazy parenting like Andy what what’s your image of like lazy parenting what what’s what’s that supposed to be.
98
00:08:56.250 –> 00:09:04.200
A Ashcraft: You know that’s that’s I don’t know if I have a good answer for that, because I tend to be on the side of the parents I tend to fall.
99
00:09:04.860 –> 00:09:26.190
A Ashcraft: on the side of parents i’m not a parent myself but boy my lot of my friends are parents and I see how much effort and how much work it is to raise a kid, and so I tend to be pretty pretty lenient about what what lazy parenting is I guess lazy parenting is is.
100
00:09:27.390 –> 00:09:34.170
A Ashcraft: When I see somebody in a public place allowing their kid to to be.
101
00:09:36.000 –> 00:09:47.850
A Ashcraft: To to run a muck or be otherwise anti social in a public place, I expect more from parents and if I if i’m not getting it then I probably assume that they’re just lazy parents.
102
00:09:48.270 –> 00:09:54.360
Shlomo Sher: uh sure oh man, well before I had kids I used to judge people all the time.
103
00:09:57.810 –> 00:10:04.350
Shlomo Sher: You know uh but you know when it comes to video games, I mean you know I go to my friend’s house and i’m like dude like.
104
00:10:04.680 –> 00:10:15.930
Shlomo Sher: Your kids have been like in front of their screens for hours and hours and hours and you only see them come out for a snack and they just go back in and they’ve been playing games all night.
105
00:10:15.960 –> 00:10:19.980
Shlomo Sher: And that’s their entire summer vacation is just playing like you know.
106
00:10:21.390 –> 00:10:22.740
Shlomo Sher: You know league of legends.
107
00:10:24.690 –> 00:10:36.480
Shlomo Sher: you’re not going to do anything about that and and to me right there seems some like lazy parenting they’re like like that there was a point where you know I see my friends kids get kids get fat.
108
00:10:36.900 –> 00:10:38.880
Shlomo Sher: You know I see them, you know.
109
00:10:39.120 –> 00:10:46.590
Shlomo Sher: Like you know losing a lot of things that I would let’s say think that that I certainly would want for my kid right.
110
00:10:46.620 –> 00:10:56.970
Shlomo Sher: Right um and when I think of lazy parenting like that I just think like parenting is hard, but there are certain responsibilities you’ve got.
111
00:10:57.300 –> 00:10:58.020
A Ashcraft: yeah, of course.
112
00:10:58.140 –> 00:11:11.340
Shlomo Sher: Right and and you know that your kids play games and the idea is that if you know you’re too lazy to meet those responsibilities you’re just kind of letting them go and it’s the idea here is that.
113
00:11:12.690 –> 00:11:20.550
Shlomo Sher: it’s not game companies let’s say that are putting these kids in harm’s way it’s you who are responsible for those kids.
114
00:11:20.820 –> 00:11:23.730
Shlomo Sher: But because you’re not taking responsibility for yourself.
115
00:11:24.060 –> 00:11:28.140
Shlomo Sher: Right you’re the one that’s really letting your kids get in harm’s way.
116
00:11:29.460 –> 00:11:33.090
A Ashcraft: Right right and and it comes back down to protecting the kid too right.
117
00:11:34.410 –> 00:11:44.280
A Ashcraft: Most of the time when we when we think about this we’re thinking about parents letting their kids do things that is going to harm them either now or over a long period of time.
118
00:11:44.880 –> 00:11:48.120
Shlomo Sher: Right right and the long period of time is easier.
119
00:11:48.810 –> 00:11:50.400
Shlomo Sher: Because it’s easy to be.
120
00:11:50.520 –> 00:11:59.130
Shlomo Sher: lazy about your kids habits, because it’s exhausting being a parent and letting your kid do what you want to do is a very, very easy way to do it.
121
00:12:01.530 –> 00:12:02.400
Shlomo Sher: Okay, so.
122
00:12:03.090 –> 00:12:06.780
A Ashcraft: You know, brings them joy and you know there’s so there’s all these other things it’s like.
123
00:12:07.200 –> 00:12:08.730
Shlomo Sher: Sir yeah there has.
124
00:12:09.360 –> 00:12:11.280
A Ashcraft: There hank the kids happy you’re happy.
125
00:12:11.490 –> 00:12:18.600
Shlomo Sher: The kids happy i’m happy I just know that there’s a potential downside to this right or they can be right.
126
00:12:19.590 –> 00:12:33.600
Shlomo Sher: Though I always kind of you know, when when I hear people talk about lazy parenting with video games, I always kind of assume that they’re not parents themselves right but it’s more like you know how it sometimes feels like.
127
00:12:34.770 –> 00:12:38.640
Shlomo Sher: just cause for game to be restricted in some way to protect the children right it’s always.
128
00:12:38.670 –> 00:12:53.730
Shlomo Sher: Right, we got to protect the children, but but i’m not a kid and you know why limit my fun, but why limit my freedom, why can’t parents just take care of their kids and take some responsibility for the kids gave me habit and then the problem would be solved.
129
00:12:54.210 –> 00:12:54.600
A Ashcraft: Right.
130
00:12:55.020 –> 00:12:56.070
A Ashcraft: And I think also.
131
00:12:56.670 –> 00:12:57.990
A Ashcraft: You know here in the US.
132
00:12:59.880 –> 00:13:05.370
A Ashcraft: We are supreme Lee liberal about how we.
133
00:13:07.260 –> 00:13:20.550
A Ashcraft: The kinds of freedoms we allow parents to have over their children were almost almost no rules about how to parent your child and if anybody ever got a sense that somebody was trying to force parents to parent their child a certain way.
134
00:13:22.020 –> 00:13:33.600
A Ashcraft: there’d be there’d be a huge public outcry on that well I think that’s probably different in other cultures, other cultures that have a little bit more of that sort of social network we talked about this in one of the earlier episodes to right.
135
00:13:33.900 –> 00:13:45.990
Shlomo Sher: right though yet though i’m not you know the whole idea that the government would come in and tell you how to raise your child is also pretty new idea right like who’s the government to tell me how to raise.
136
00:13:46.020 –> 00:13:47.670
Shlomo Sher: You know that the idea to do.
137
00:13:49.260 –> 00:13:50.190
Shlomo Sher: We do now.
138
00:13:50.340 –> 00:14:00.720
Shlomo Sher: right but think about how novel an idea throughout history right the government coming in and telling you how you should raise your kids your kids were your property, you could sell your kids for most of history.
139
00:14:01.380 –> 00:14:02.340
Shlomo Sher: Right, I mean.
140
00:14:02.580 –> 00:14:03.300
Shlomo Sher: You know.
141
00:14:04.410 –> 00:14:16.950
Shlomo Sher: You can put you know now we have this idea that the government that the kids are citizens and the government has a responsibility to protect right kids and you see different countries trying to deal with this in different ways.
142
00:14:17.280 –> 00:14:18.600
Shlomo Sher: Rom one thing that.
143
00:14:19.050 –> 00:14:29.430
Shlomo Sher: From our discussion about China and South Korea when it comes to what they do about let’s say excessive gaming You know, as you can say in those.
144
00:14:30.450 –> 00:14:33.450
Shlomo Sher: In those countries, the government is.
145
00:14:34.470 –> 00:14:37.710
Shlomo Sher: has an idea of how things should be done to protect kids.
146
00:14:38.040 –> 00:14:40.110
Shlomo Sher: Man is supporting parents.
147
00:14:40.650 –> 00:14:44.160
Shlomo Sher: In doing that and also encouraging parents to do that.
148
00:14:45.180 –> 00:14:52.290
Shlomo Sher: i’m not sure how much it’s forced the parents to do that in the in a place, like the US you’re more alone on this.
149
00:14:52.710 –> 00:14:55.920
Shlomo Sher: yeah you don’t have, and this is true for most of the West, most of the world right.
150
00:14:56.640 –> 00:15:05.580
Shlomo Sher: Essentially, when it comes to kids of video games you’re mostly alone, especially where there’s very little censorship, like the US right.
151
00:15:06.810 –> 00:15:07.560
A Ashcraft: Right right.
152
00:15:08.910 –> 00:15:16.560
Shlomo Sher: So okay so next I was, I was thinking about okay so as a parent, I want to share some of the challenges.
153
00:15:17.400 –> 00:15:18.840
Shlomo Sher: of you know of.
154
00:15:18.930 –> 00:15:31.650
Shlomo Sher: Parents protecting their kids and you know for again I want to say this from the point as a parent I see it differently than I did before I was apparent and many parents have said similar things.
155
00:15:32.670 –> 00:15:39.600
Shlomo Sher: So, first of all my God there’s so many different unfamiliar technology platforms and options.
156
00:15:39.900 –> 00:15:41.730
Shlomo Sher: And so right.
157
00:15:41.820 –> 00:15:54.540
Shlomo Sher: I mean you know in my house where we have a we have the ipads and we have the phones and we have the xbox and we have the laptops.
158
00:15:55.170 –> 00:16:13.890
Shlomo Sher: Right, and I think there’s four or five operating systems or settings in each one of these right and then there’s platforms like roadblocks a or minecraft which I need to sign in completely and I can never figure out the passwords because which computer they’re in.
159
00:16:14.310 –> 00:16:18.450
Shlomo Sher: And with settings were for minecraft and which were for roadblocks and which was.
160
00:16:18.840 –> 00:16:24.450
Shlomo Sher: I mean there’s just so and my wife doesn’t know how to do any of this it’s it’s just me and.
161
00:16:25.230 –> 00:16:25.770
A Ashcraft: Saying okay.
162
00:16:26.040 –> 00:16:27.750
Shlomo Sher: If it was up to my wife.
163
00:16:27.780 –> 00:16:31.950
A Ashcraft: Because I when I when I think of the two of you, I think of her as being the more technically savvy one.
164
00:16:32.400 –> 00:16:33.270
Shlomo Sher: No, no it’s me.
165
00:16:35.880 –> 00:16:47.460
Shlomo Sher: But yet notice right, I mean if it wasn’t if it wasn’t for for for me understanding this much this would be even harder for her to do.
166
00:16:47.910 –> 00:17:01.680
Shlomo Sher: Right, but even within so but just the fact that you got to learn all these different platforms and and there’s a learning curve, for all these and there’s some platforms, that I set up and then I completely forget months later.
167
00:17:02.040 –> 00:17:11.280
A Ashcraft: Right right right so on one hand, though, I mean what’s interesting about this is that kids learn these things faster than adults.
168
00:17:11.610 –> 00:17:12.480
Shlomo Sher: way faster.
169
00:17:12.690 –> 00:17:17.730
A Ashcraft: way faster their brains are set up on a kid’s brain is set in learn mode.
170
00:17:18.180 –> 00:17:33.780
A Ashcraft: And they’re learning the the rules for how live in the world they’re learning the social rules and and that that structure of the brain that’s learning social rules and learning how things are supposed to work it gets applied very well to games and video games and learning rules.
171
00:17:34.350 –> 00:17:34.650
Right.
172
00:17:35.730 –> 00:17:41.760
A Ashcraft: And so they’re they’re snapping this stuff up way faster than the parents are going to be able to keep up with them.
173
00:17:42.060 –> 00:17:50.400
Shlomo Sher: And they’re motivated to to understand it much more and they’re motivated also to look for loopholes.
174
00:17:50.700 –> 00:17:52.290
A Ashcraft: And intrinsically motivated.
175
00:17:52.530 –> 00:17:53.910
A Ashcraft: intrinsically motivated that.
176
00:17:53.910 –> 00:17:54.000
A Ashcraft: Is.
177
00:17:54.090 –> 00:17:56.460
Shlomo Sher: It yeah it actually makes their brains feel good.
178
00:17:56.550 –> 00:17:57.420
A Ashcraft: to learn stuff.
179
00:17:58.650 –> 00:18:14.280
Shlomo Sher: Sure, but they also got you know specific goals they want to play right, you know, and you know this is what they need to play, and they have a strong desire to play which is you know stronger than many parents desire to keep them off play.
180
00:18:16.440 –> 00:18:24.360
Shlomo Sher: And it’s a major concern in their life to play where for a parent, this is one of many, many, many you know concerns right.
181
00:18:25.440 –> 00:18:40.560
Shlomo Sher: So okay so so to me that’s kind of one too many platforms and then new platforms and then there’s also things like there’s not enough nuance and what can be controlled so to give you an example, so my son uses his iPad.
182
00:18:41.610 –> 00:18:45.240
Shlomo Sher: During zoom for school or used at schools just about over.
183
00:18:46.770 –> 00:18:51.450
Shlomo Sher: And there were some games that he needed to actually use for school, which was awesome.
184
00:18:52.560 –> 00:18:54.930
Shlomo Sher: But the iPad would count them as games.
185
00:18:56.100 –> 00:18:57.390
Shlomo Sher: Not educational.
186
00:18:58.860 –> 00:19:02.010
A Ashcraft: So you couldn’t you couldn’t change that setting on the.
187
00:19:02.610 –> 00:19:07.710
Shlomo Sher: know because you can’t you can do it on the iPhone but not on the iPad.
188
00:19:08.040 –> 00:19:23.970
Shlomo Sher: Oh interest you can’t you can’t get granular enough so you know let’s say I want them, you know those this geography game that my son was into a couple years ago, which was just awesome he learned, I was like you play that as much as you want, but I don’t want him on roblox all day.
189
00:19:24.510 –> 00:19:28.500
Shlomo Sher: Right right and there was no way for me to kind of do that.
190
00:19:29.760 –> 00:19:30.300
Shlomo Sher: So.
191
00:19:30.840 –> 00:19:38.070
Shlomo Sher: I we kind of had a trust system where he supposed to play this, but maybe that’s not really what he’s doing right.
192
00:19:38.130 –> 00:19:41.970
A Ashcraft: And you’re not hovering over his shoulder watching them 24 seven.
193
00:19:42.600 –> 00:19:43.800
Shlomo Sher: I got two jobs.
194
00:19:43.950 –> 00:19:46.620
Shlomo Sher: Right wife has right so, and this is kind of part of.
195
00:19:46.740 –> 00:19:54.300
Shlomo Sher: Part of it also right it’s already kind of we’re we’re exhausted if you’re a working parent, I mean you know.
196
00:19:55.320 –> 00:20:11.880
Shlomo Sher: God, I mean we’re talking about you know, two working parents and most households you’re working all day you come back at home at six you’ve got all the things that you got to do, I mean you know it’s already existing before you get to any of this stuff.
197
00:20:12.330 –> 00:20:12.840
A Ashcraft: Right and.
198
00:20:13.590 –> 00:20:26.970
Shlomo Sher: i’m Okay, and then you’ve got the whole, the whole issue that you’re exhausted, and the number one conflict that you know lots of people have with their kids is the video games issue.
199
00:20:28.350 –> 00:20:32.040
Shlomo Sher: So Okay, do you want to have that battle, right now, or not right.
200
00:20:32.070 –> 00:20:33.180
A Ashcraft: Because it’s going to be a battle.
201
00:20:33.720 –> 00:20:45.990
Shlomo Sher: Because it’s going to be, I mean you know there’s going to be crying involved it’s you know, and I mean not always right, I mean, so I don’t want excuse parents to easily here.
202
00:20:46.410 –> 00:20:46.770
Shlomo Sher: Right.
203
00:20:47.070 –> 00:20:53.460
Shlomo Sher: I mean you can set a line, you can figure out ways to do this right, you can have a systematic way of of doing.
204
00:20:54.150 –> 00:20:58.950
A Ashcraft: This and again kids kids gravitate to these sort of Rule system is extremely well.
205
00:20:59.550 –> 00:21:11.190
Shlomo Sher: Right so right you set up the rules and the kid might cry in the beginning or might be very upset but eventually might you know, accept that these are just kind of the rules and that’s how they do it in our House and.
206
00:21:11.310 –> 00:21:13.890
Shlomo Sher: Even though my friend gets twice the time that I get.
207
00:21:14.370 –> 00:21:20.640
Shlomo Sher: Right and they they get unlimited you know money on roblox this is, this is what i’m getting.
208
00:21:22.710 –> 00:21:31.410
Shlomo Sher: You know, it seems to me that some of these, like some of these are valid and some of these are not valid right or.
209
00:21:31.470 –> 00:21:36.120
A Ashcraft: Maybe there’s just so nuanced right, I mean every family is going to be slightly different.
210
00:21:37.200 –> 00:21:51.150
Shlomo Sher: Right, I mean you think about just you know in some sense, I want to say look there’s only so many platforms, I could keep track of I mean I gotta keep track of all of my platforms and all of my passwords and.
211
00:21:51.450 –> 00:21:52.920
Shlomo Sher: All of my settings.
212
00:21:54.180 –> 00:22:07.980
Shlomo Sher: nevermind you know you know somebody else I so wish, there was some central way I can control all of my child’s play, I can see how much money is being spent, I can see how much time I can grab.
213
00:22:08.520 –> 00:22:15.450
Shlomo Sher: You know I can gradually decide what is in, and what is out if there was just one central way to do it.
214
00:22:15.810 –> 00:22:17.160
Shlomo Sher: But we don’t have anything like that.
215
00:22:17.790 –> 00:22:21.270
Shlomo Sher: No, you know the closest thing we have is PR zero s.
216
00:22:22.170 –> 00:22:23.670
Shlomo Sher: right but.
217
00:22:23.730 –> 00:22:32.400
Shlomo Sher: Right, but even that is, you know as with the iPad right not good enough right and I don’t know why do.
218
00:22:32.430 –> 00:22:41.130
A Ashcraft: I guess it does if if you do have settings, for you know less than your you know that your kid is at least getting up every two hours to change up.
219
00:22:41.280 –> 00:22:42.510
Change operating systems.
220
00:22:43.710 –> 00:22:48.360
A Ashcraft: get off the couch from the iPad go to the desk or the PC is play there for two hours.
221
00:22:48.720 –> 00:22:51.420
A Ashcraft: yep go to I don’t know.
222
00:22:52.920 –> 00:22:54.720
A Ashcraft: Go blind the iPhone and.
223
00:22:54.840 –> 00:23:00.090
Shlomo Sher: Right so yeah that’s that’s another that’s another and, mind you are my kid doesn’t have a phone yet.
224
00:23:00.810 –> 00:23:02.100
Shlomo Sher: Right right and.
225
00:23:03.120 –> 00:23:08.130
Shlomo Sher: And with the phone Jesus and a teenager with a phone how many.
226
00:23:09.420 –> 00:23:20.130
Shlomo Sher: You know that’s a that’s a big thing to deal down the road it’s It just seems it seems really hard and and you also have this kind of variety of parenting.
227
00:23:20.520 –> 00:23:21.300
Shlomo Sher: Right, where.
228
00:23:21.690 –> 00:23:30.750
Shlomo Sher: You have variety of parents, you know there’s plenty of kids in my son’s school that don’t have people that with two working parents.
229
00:23:31.560 –> 00:23:42.030
Shlomo Sher: So you have a parent that actually has time and if they have time, maybe they do have the ability to kind of learn up on the stuff and to set the rules and to obey you know go by the rules.
230
00:23:42.360 –> 00:23:52.230
Shlomo Sher: And maybe a parent is educated enough to understand is sophisticated enough with the technology to understand all the technology, but another parent isn’t.
231
00:23:52.590 –> 00:23:52.980
A Ashcraft: Right.
232
00:23:53.400 –> 00:23:53.940
Shlomo Sher: Right and.
233
00:23:54.390 –> 00:23:54.810
Shlomo Sher: And maybe.
234
00:23:54.930 –> 00:23:57.240
A Ashcraft: they’re probably that’s probably likely honestly, I think.
235
00:23:57.840 –> 00:23:59.460
A Ashcraft: it ends up being the likely.
236
00:24:00.600 –> 00:24:09.300
A Ashcraft: The likely situation where one person understands it much better than the other, and you know, because you divide and conquer right when you’re when you’re in a team like a parenting team.
237
00:24:09.390 –> 00:24:10.020
Right.
238
00:24:11.100 –> 00:24:14.130
A Ashcraft: You divide and conquer you say all right i’m gonna deal with this issue.
239
00:24:14.430 –> 00:24:15.930
A Ashcraft: Right you take that issue.
240
00:24:16.290 –> 00:24:24.660
Shlomo Sher: Right right so let’s say this, my wife, will be the talking of making the agreement with my son, but i’ll figure out how to make the technology part happen.
241
00:24:25.260 –> 00:24:33.870
Shlomo Sher: right but, but I was thinking more of like you know different sets of parents right I got an imagine being like you know, a single parent.
242
00:24:34.260 –> 00:24:41.310
Shlomo Sher: You know, and having to deal with this over everything else, of being a single parent, so, in other words there’s just there’s such a variety.
243
00:24:41.640 –> 00:25:00.180
Shlomo Sher: of parenting situations out there and it seems to me that in some situations, the criticism is valid of Okay, you have the ability to do better and to protect your kids better, but in in other situations it’s very understandable that the parent would not right.
244
00:25:00.930 –> 00:25:03.480
A Ashcraft: And and and and you, and then you.
245
00:25:04.560 –> 00:25:18.810
A Ashcraft: As part of that there is an assumption that that there is something there to protect them from and it’s not always clear that that’s the case right four hours of video games per day may seem like a lot, but maybe maybe it’s not maybe there is no harm.
246
00:25:19.650 –> 00:25:27.150
Shlomo Sher: What which by the way, is the additional research that parents are expected to stay on top of.
247
00:25:27.450 –> 00:25:30.210
A Ashcraft: Right so right more thing on the parents plate to do.
248
00:25:30.330 –> 00:25:34.500
Shlomo Sher: Right so, for example, right, I believe you know.
249
00:25:35.880 –> 00:25:47.160
Shlomo Sher: When we take a question here when we go to Kaiser they asked how much screen time and they want to make sure that your child our child my child is seven, I think that they don’t have more than an hour screen time a day.
250
00:25:47.490 –> 00:25:48.450
Shlomo Sher: or two hours.
251
00:25:48.600 –> 00:25:52.410
Shlomo Sher: Obviously that you know went by the wayside when zoom came.
252
00:25:52.860 –> 00:25:57.210
Shlomo Sher: But that’s the idea let’s say maximum amount of two hours right right.
253
00:25:57.300 –> 00:25:59.010
Shlomo Sher: You know our son had one hour.
254
00:25:59.310 –> 00:26:01.200
Shlomo Sher: Before you know be.
255
00:26:01.260 –> 00:26:11.790
Shlomo Sher: Before zoom came along, but notice right that’s your pediatric recommendation we assume that that comes from good good you know psychology.
256
00:26:13.140 –> 00:26:16.020
A Ashcraft: But it’s going to you know it’s going to be very conservative right.
257
00:26:16.380 –> 00:26:25.350
Shlomo Sher: Yes, you know it’s going to be conservative and you also know that there might be a really big difference as your child grows up and.
258
00:26:25.470 –> 00:26:29.370
Shlomo Sher: With the content of the of the Games, I mean they talk about screen time in general.
259
00:26:29.940 –> 00:26:34.650
Shlomo Sher: Right, rather than the con and this isn’t about games it’s about you know staring at a screen.
260
00:26:34.920 –> 00:26:38.490
Shlomo Sher: But of course staring at a screen is very different than interacting with the screen.
261
00:26:38.850 –> 00:26:50.730
Shlomo Sher: Right right and the kind of thing that you can get from you know games could be much better than the kind of thing you can get from let’s say watching TV and maybe lumping these things together is not a good idea.
262
00:26:50.940 –> 00:27:01.230
A Ashcraft: Right I I you know i’m a game designer so I tend to believe that the the mindless pointing and clicking of a game is is is better than the mindless staring of of.
263
00:27:01.980 –> 00:27:11.010
A Ashcraft: of just watching TV that sort of some nebulous kind of state that you can see kids get into when they’re just staring at the TV screen.
264
00:27:11.280 –> 00:27:22.680
Shlomo Sher: Right, but of course there’s also there’s life lessons from that you know from phone from the TV screen right um you know there’s connections that can that can be drawn.
265
00:27:23.040 –> 00:27:36.600
Shlomo Sher: You know i’m thinking my son’s obsession with Harry Potter right now right and what and how many things that we talked about he immediately frames reframes in terms of Harry Potter world things.
266
00:27:36.840 –> 00:27:48.600
Shlomo Sher: Oh nice right, because these are life lessons for him, and you know and games could potentially do that and games, you know again right so so.
267
00:27:49.050 –> 00:28:02.760
Shlomo Sher: If you’re like a sophisticated parent, you can go out and you can look at research and try to figure out what a psychologist say about this kind of game with this kind of game, but I mean my God there’s so many kinds of games and there’s so many specific games and.
268
00:28:03.060 –> 00:28:05.130
Shlomo Sher: You know, unless you’re.
269
00:28:06.210 –> 00:28:12.570
Shlomo Sher: A researcher specializing in this there’s only so much you can know so I want to ask you this, like.
270
00:28:15.120 –> 00:28:21.630
Shlomo Sher: If game designers wanted to if game companies wanted to and i’m not saying they don’t want to I.
271
00:28:21.630 –> 00:28:33.030
Shlomo Sher: Really don’t know what can they do to help parents here and notice, we can talk about what they can do, and then we could talk about a separate question of whether they have responsibilities to do anything.
272
00:28:33.870 –> 00:28:36.810
A Ashcraft: Right so i’ve been lucky.
273
00:28:37.860 –> 00:28:48.240
A Ashcraft: In most of my career, that the kids games that i’ve worked on have been have been with companies that that care a lot about their kids I mean, to the point where they will give up revenue.
274
00:28:49.500 –> 00:28:50.730
A Ashcraft: In order to.
275
00:28:52.080 –> 00:28:53.520
A Ashcraft: To avoid.
276
00:28:55.140 –> 00:29:14.310
A Ashcraft: Potential harm for their for kids and it’s because they want to have as, and the reason for it, I mean the business reason for it, is that they want to have lifelong fans they’re not willing to to basically strip mine their their their market, they want to keep these people around forever.
277
00:29:15.540 –> 00:29:22.740
A Ashcraft: they’re big companies with mouse ears that do this and they you know they’re there they they care a lot about the kids.
278
00:29:23.760 –> 00:29:29.490
A Ashcraft: To the point of like anything that feels in the least bit predatory they’re not on board with it.
279
00:29:30.450 –> 00:29:33.930
Shlomo Sher: Right so notice part of that is just the brand right.
280
00:29:34.020 –> 00:29:34.470
A Ashcraft: Right.
281
00:29:34.500 –> 00:29:36.570
Shlomo Sher: diaper being on brand right.
282
00:29:37.020 –> 00:29:38.550
A Ashcraft: But that is the brand the brand is.
283
00:29:38.550 –> 00:29:39.480
A Ashcraft: caring for children.
284
00:29:39.960 –> 00:29:54.090
A Ashcraft: Right so that’s on brand right and so that’s one thing that you could do is you could make your brand about caring for your your players and caring for the kids who play your games if you’re making kids games be there be the company that cares about kids.
285
00:29:55.050 –> 00:30:05.670
Shlomo Sher: What if that’s not our brand our brand is more general right so i’m thinking let’s say obviously you know Disney and Nintendo right right will be another one here, what about.
286
00:30:05.730 –> 00:30:08.250
A Ashcraft: Nintendo I also think cares a lot about kids.
287
00:30:08.310 –> 00:30:13.410
Shlomo Sher: yeah right, I mean that’s that’s part of the that’s always been part of their brand right.
288
00:30:14.820 –> 00:30:24.090
Shlomo Sher: But what about if you’re just a let’s say it’s not part of your brand you’re more general a general game maker.
289
00:30:25.170 –> 00:30:27.540
A Ashcraft: You might consider making it part of your brand.
290
00:30:31.590 –> 00:30:33.600
Shlomo Sher: Can you give an example of.
291
00:30:33.990 –> 00:30:36.990
A Ashcraft: If you’re making kids games and you don’t care about kids.
292
00:30:38.190 –> 00:30:41.700
A Ashcraft: there’s I feel like that’s already ethically suspect.
293
00:30:42.450 –> 00:30:51.240
Shlomo Sher: Well, I care about let’s say I care about kids having fun, you know but look, I mean I can make kids shoes and not care about kids i’m just making a product.
294
00:30:52.890 –> 00:31:03.000
A Ashcraft: Again, it would be if you didn’t care about like how kids feet grow, you know how they how they grow how like you’re making shoes you don’t care about how they walk.
295
00:31:04.350 –> 00:31:04.920
Shlomo Sher: Well sure.
296
00:31:04.950 –> 00:31:17.070
A Ashcraft: yeah if you don’t have you know children’s orthopedic people in your business and your in your in your development chain helping you designed shoes for kids and that’s a problem.
297
00:31:18.990 –> 00:31:19.290
Shlomo Sher: Okay.
298
00:31:19.890 –> 00:31:21.090
A Ashcraft: don’t you feel like that’s a problem.
299
00:31:22.200 –> 00:31:27.390
Shlomo Sher: Well, you know you’re it seems to me you’re probably not going to make a very good shoe.
300
00:31:29.100 –> 00:31:34.830
Shlomo Sher: right but i’m thinking you know, for you know there’s lots of pretty cheap shoes.
301
00:31:35.190 –> 00:31:39.180
Shlomo Sher: right that are made and you’re going to have obviously understand how to make a good kids.
302
00:31:39.180 –> 00:31:40.290
Shlomo Sher: shoe right.
303
00:31:40.320 –> 00:31:46.050
A Ashcraft: And it’s and you can print you know cartoon characters on them, and whatever and make probably make them appealing to to certain kids.
304
00:31:47.460 –> 00:32:05.400
Shlomo Sher: Sure right um, but I can also imagine lots of you know lots of let’s say game companies that uh yeah you know they they want kids to enjoy their game, but they want kids to enjoy their games, so that they’ll make you know money off the game.
305
00:32:06.210 –> 00:32:09.780
A Ashcraft: But it’s immediate money and not necessarily long term money.
306
00:32:10.080 –> 00:32:25.530
Shlomo Sher: right because I mean you got you got the kids attention, right now, who knows where the kids going to go next right their intention shifts I mean look brands like Nintendo and Disney are so rare in the way that they have these kind of lifelong fans that start with kids.
307
00:32:25.920 –> 00:32:28.800
Shlomo Sher: Right, I mean that’s that’s the exception, not the rule.
308
00:32:29.400 –> 00:32:33.570
A Ashcraft: yeah so it’s interesting, I want to bring in a little bit of history about TV.
309
00:32:34.020 –> 00:32:36.600
A Ashcraft: Because there was a there was a period of time and us.
310
00:32:37.080 –> 00:32:48.360
A Ashcraft: TV from 1946 to 1983 were making shows that were basically commercials for products for kids was illegal.
311
00:32:48.840 –> 00:32:56.430
A Ashcraft: Right and then that got thrown out, I think the Reagan administration took took that away in 1983 and it became a free for all.
312
00:32:56.670 –> 00:33:00.750
Shlomo Sher: And that’s still illegal in some countries right yeah and most of Europe, I believe.
313
00:33:01.230 –> 00:33:01.740
Yes.
314
00:33:02.910 –> 00:33:03.720
A Ashcraft: yeah so.
315
00:33:05.040 –> 00:33:14.700
A Ashcraft: You know, most of the people that are going to be listening to this or are people your age or younger who are who grew up you know, in the more or less a fair.
316
00:33:15.810 –> 00:33:17.790
A Ashcraft: period after 1983.
317
00:33:18.810 –> 00:33:22.650
A Ashcraft: and are going to look at themselves and go well, I didn’t turn out horrible.
318
00:33:24.000 –> 00:33:24.330
A Ashcraft: So.
319
00:33:24.510 –> 00:33:25.500
A Ashcraft: It must be okay.
320
00:33:27.240 –> 00:33:34.890
Shlomo Sher: Right right well, I mean you know we can look at our materialist society and think about how commercial TV.
321
00:33:36.090 –> 00:33:38.310
Shlomo Sher: targeted at children might have played a role in that.
322
00:33:38.670 –> 00:33:49.980
A Ashcraft: Right and so, and so this this ties into the way games games that are made for kids that have that have you know lots of in APP purchases so we’re talking about the harm that you talked about.
323
00:33:50.250 –> 00:33:53.400
A Ashcraft: At the end, the last harm the financial harm.
324
00:33:55.230 –> 00:34:02.880
A Ashcraft: You know marketing marketing directly to kids through the Internet to their to their entertainment is perfectly legal.
325
00:34:03.390 –> 00:34:06.960
A Ashcraft: Right and and for everybody, you know what.
326
00:34:08.040 –> 00:34:14.070
A Ashcraft: 2737 37 years or older that’s what you spend like your entire life.
327
00:34:15.420 –> 00:34:16.740
A Ashcraft: or 37 years or younger, I mean.
328
00:34:17.370 –> 00:34:28.980
Shlomo Sher: i’m sure in the US right though again right, I mean this is, this is not the case in some parts of the world, though it really makes me think another the harm that i’m kind of concerned about is.
329
00:34:29.850 –> 00:34:39.990
Shlomo Sher: You know materialism right that materialism and in a game context, making sure you have the things you need to fit in.
330
00:34:40.980 –> 00:34:51.660
Shlomo Sher: That games might you know support that and push that right, so if fortnight let’s say, you know as we talked about before let’s say fortnight might.
331
00:34:52.230 –> 00:35:02.400
Shlomo Sher: bring out new skins thinking that i’m going to get socially shamed if I don’t get one and it’s just been promoting this idea that I got to get the latest thing in order to.
332
00:35:02.670 –> 00:35:10.200
Shlomo Sher: feel comfortable myself in my position society and what does this teach you know teach kids right you don’t notice right that’s another sort of issue.
333
00:35:10.560 –> 00:35:21.000
A Ashcraft: Right right and and there doesn’t seem to be a lot of counter programming for that right there’s not a lot of things going telling children hey you know you don’t necessarily need all that to fit in.
334
00:35:22.440 –> 00:35:35.610
Shlomo Sher: sure that I mean it might you, you know, and not only goes against you know let’s say the bottom line, but it may remember, go against their fiduciary responsibilities to make money for for their stockholders.
335
00:35:35.850 –> 00:35:40.350
A Ashcraft: Right like there’s you know after school specials and things like that they used to.
336
00:35:40.350 –> 00:35:40.500
Shlomo Sher: Be.
337
00:35:40.530 –> 00:35:43.500
A Ashcraft: Around to teach to teach these sort of life’s lessons.
338
00:35:44.070 –> 00:35:44.430
A Ashcraft: yeah.
339
00:35:44.460 –> 00:35:45.840
A Ashcraft: kind of a counter programming.
340
00:35:46.290 –> 00:35:47.520
Shlomo Sher: Now we have bts.
341
00:35:49.710 –> 00:35:50.100
Shlomo Sher: You know.
342
00:35:51.450 –> 00:36:06.420
Shlomo Sher: yeah you know I mean um well, let me ask you this, I mean the kind of problems, I talked about before that parents have what, what do you think companies can do to to help parents, but this.
343
00:36:06.870 –> 00:36:07.230
Right.
344
00:36:08.490 –> 00:36:14.640
A Ashcraft: So one thing you can do is you can put parental controls in your games.
345
00:36:17.400 –> 00:36:21.330
A Ashcraft: You know it’s extra it’s maybe a little extra work for parents to go in and set them up.
346
00:36:23.310 –> 00:36:29.220
A Ashcraft: But if you don’t if it’s not system wide like you know apple has some parenting controls for you.
347
00:36:30.180 –> 00:36:38.310
A Ashcraft: But if it’s not If those are not adequate, then you can do it individually for each individual game, or maybe for all of your games, have you published more than one game, if you have a.
348
00:36:38.820 –> 00:36:48.240
A Ashcraft: slate of games that you’ve published you could set up something that that looks at them all and and and calculates you know how much screen time how much money is spent.
349
00:36:49.320 –> 00:36:54.780
A Ashcraft: and put some and allows parents to put some limits on those sorts of things that wouldn’t be hard to do.
350
00:36:56.580 –> 00:37:03.570
A Ashcraft: there’s an extra ui and it does require parents to like pay attention to these things so that they know that those those features exist.
351
00:37:05.550 –> 00:37:10.230
A Ashcraft: And then that so that’s The next question is like, how do you know how do you let people know that these features exist.
352
00:37:10.500 –> 00:37:10.950
Right.
353
00:37:13.110 –> 00:37:14.430
A Ashcraft: How do parents.
354
00:37:14.490 –> 00:37:16.800
A Ashcraft: How do you know when your kid gets a new APP.
355
00:37:17.310 –> 00:37:20.610
A Ashcraft: What kind of parent or control features exists in that APP.
356
00:37:21.090 –> 00:37:32.130
Shlomo Sher: Right, and this is, you know, this is where I you know in in my dream world like you know all the big game company or the big gaming platforms get together.
357
00:37:32.610 –> 00:37:35.340
Shlomo Sher: And they agree on some sort of like standard.
358
00:37:36.330 –> 00:37:48.030
Shlomo Sher: right for for this that then or you know governments help support this let’s say by forcing the standard I don’t know probably you know either let’s have just throwing out ideas.
359
00:37:48.240 –> 00:37:48.660
A Ashcraft: Right or.
360
00:37:49.050 –> 00:38:05.910
Shlomo Sher: Is there is there a possibility for universal or standard or our games just two different and you need kind of granular control for games that what might work I don’t know night might not work for gta.
361
00:38:06.660 –> 00:38:17.250
A Ashcraft: Who would be who would be in charge of enforcing it because there would be a giant advantage for anybody who who said they’re agreeing to it and then not agree to it.
362
00:38:18.870 –> 00:38:24.810
Shlomo Sher: yeah I don’t know I mean you know, this is the same yeah this is this is true for anything, an industry does.
363
00:38:24.960 –> 00:38:32.670
Shlomo Sher: mm hmm right so whenever an industry, create standards for itself and has certification processes and all that kind of stuff.
364
00:38:34.440 –> 00:38:40.680
Shlomo Sher: You know it, it needs some sort of enforcement mechanism, otherwise governments end up dealing with this things.
365
00:38:40.740 –> 00:38:45.300
Shlomo Sher: With these things right governments end up taking over and usually no one really wants that.
366
00:38:45.630 –> 00:38:46.710
Shlomo Sher: Right right.
367
00:38:47.400 –> 00:38:56.790
A Ashcraft: And you know, to a certain degree, you could have these things so that you don’t have to that they that they default to be on so you know your default.
368
00:38:57.840 –> 00:39:09.570
A Ashcraft: game you load up a brand new game and it defaults to its most protective settings and you have to do as a parent, you have to use some sort of parental controls to get past them.
369
00:39:10.710 –> 00:39:21.510
Shlomo Sher: notice even that is yes, sometimes that can be super annoying why can’t my kid do this I gotta figure out the parent parental control, though you’re being safer.
370
00:39:21.990 –> 00:39:25.050
Shlomo Sher: Again, whatever exactly say for means here right.
371
00:39:25.440 –> 00:39:33.570
Shlomo Sher: But yeah I just think the whole problem is a it’s it’s a big I hope people working on this problem I I hope someone somewhere.
372
00:39:35.040 –> 00:39:36.720
Shlomo Sher: Is yeah working on this problem.
373
00:39:37.440 –> 00:39:41.010
A Ashcraft: The business is so competitive the the real the.
374
00:39:42.450 –> 00:39:54.600
A Ashcraft: The conflict, the the two forces that are that are that are fighting as, as I see it, are the forces that that because it’s it’s so competitive.
375
00:39:55.200 –> 00:40:05.040
A Ashcraft: That you have to do everything you can to make money because it’s so competitive if you don’t your company goes under your you have to layer and plays off there’s all kinds of bad problems that come with that right right.
376
00:40:06.090 –> 00:40:14.130
A Ashcraft: On the other hand, if you care about your people if you care about your fans you care about your players, you will.
377
00:40:16.110 –> 00:40:24.960
A Ashcraft: You will make decisions that are in the best interests of your players and and I hope and i’m always hopeful about this and i’m always optimistic for this that.
378
00:40:25.710 –> 00:40:34.740
A Ashcraft: That that’s the that’s the force that will a went out in the competitive in the competitive part right is people will gravitate towards the Games, where they felt cared for.
379
00:40:36.600 –> 00:40:38.550
Shlomo Sher: Right, though.
380
00:40:38.880 –> 00:40:46.560
A Ashcraft: And those are the ones that will win in the marketplace, even though the other ones may have other advantages have these other short term advantages, because they don’t care.
381
00:40:47.370 –> 00:40:50.910
Shlomo Sher: Maybe right, and I mean you know that might be optimistic.
382
00:40:51.330 –> 00:40:57.240
Shlomo Sher: I mean it’s sorry it’s definitely optimistic, I mean you know there’s a question might be unrealistically optimistic right.
383
00:40:57.450 –> 00:40:57.840
Right.
384
00:40:59.160 –> 00:41:15.750
Shlomo Sher: You know it’s interesting you know what we do with kids and other kind of products that might harm them right, so you know notice right there’s some products, and we can include games in that where we just ban kids from buying those products, you know, like guns and alcohol, tobacco in.
385
00:41:16.050 –> 00:41:16.710
Shlomo Sher: The we.
386
00:41:16.980 –> 00:41:21.840
Shlomo Sher: Do United States is I think unusual that, for example, there’s no.
387
00:41:23.640 –> 00:41:34.890
Shlomo Sher: Unless you’re talking about pornography right there’s no ban and buying any game, so you can buy the most violent game that you want, if you’re five you know if you can get the money right.
388
00:41:34.950 –> 00:41:35.190
A Ashcraft: Right.
389
00:41:35.310 –> 00:41:41.130
A Ashcraft: And then individual stores will look at the US or you know ESRI be ratings and have some policies.
390
00:41:42.120 –> 00:41:44.070
Shlomo Sher: Right voluntary policies.
391
00:41:44.070 –> 00:41:45.030
Shlomo Sher: On just a warning.
392
00:41:45.540 –> 00:41:58.440
Shlomo Sher: right but let’s say there’s no laws about that right so it’s it’s imagine if this was the case with things like you know the backup right right, but of course there’s a really big difference between tobacco and video games.
393
00:41:59.250 –> 00:42:08.400
Shlomo Sher: Right right and that’s and that’s a really you know so notice right that tobacco harm is you know real and large and we treat them well.
394
00:42:09.330 –> 00:42:12.480
Shlomo Sher: And well documented we treat a very differently than the harm video games.
395
00:42:12.630 –> 00:42:17.910
A Ashcraft: Right, you know, strangely, if you if we want to a good comparison between tobacco.
396
00:42:19.350 –> 00:42:21.300
A Ashcraft: The comparison of tobacco is probably sugar.
397
00:42:22.680 –> 00:42:27.660
A Ashcraft: Where we know how harmful sugar is, and yet we don’t do anything.
398
00:42:28.800 –> 00:42:34.230
Shlomo Sher: Right, well, we you know at least you know there’s attempts to educate parents about it but.
399
00:42:34.590 –> 00:42:35.250
Shlomo Sher: You know.
400
00:42:36.540 –> 00:42:37.710
Shlomo Sher: Definitely like say like.
401
00:42:37.740 –> 00:42:40.290
A Ashcraft: Banning not letting children by sugar.
402
00:42:40.410 –> 00:42:41.430
A Ashcraft: Right like.
403
00:42:41.610 –> 00:42:42.510
A Ashcraft: Are you kidding me.
404
00:42:42.690 –> 00:42:45.780
Shlomo Sher: yeah, though, how exactly would you do that it’s really hard.
405
00:42:46.560 –> 00:42:49.920
A Ashcraft: How do you deal with with tobacco, I mean, I guess, he had tobacco is not in.
406
00:42:49.920 –> 00:42:50.700
A Ashcraft: Everything But.
407
00:42:51.570 –> 00:42:59.700
Shlomo Sher: I mean tobacco is super super regulate it, but, but then notice right, sometimes we restrict what things can do by age or you know.
408
00:43:00.330 –> 00:43:10.050
Shlomo Sher: age or some sort of parental approval, and you know this idea of limiting target limiting advertising the targets kids To me, this is, this is one of those things that.
409
00:43:10.410 –> 00:43:24.000
Shlomo Sher: You know, companies can certainly do like right, so if it’s part of parents job to protect their kids from let’s say financial harm, one thing that the minds that is companies.
410
00:43:24.990 –> 00:43:44.700
Shlomo Sher: You know, using in game advertising, and when I say in game advertising, I mean kind of any kind of marketing in the game that would move the the the player, which may be a kid to to buy something you know again part of the problem fear the company’s, how do you enough to play as a kid.
411
00:43:45.180 –> 00:43:46.680
Shlomo Sher: And re where.
412
00:43:46.860 –> 00:44:00.900
Shlomo Sher: You can give an adult options, but the kid won’t know that it’s an option, this is where South Korea solves this problem by having you, you know, have to log in with a you know, a national ID.
413
00:44:01.470 –> 00:44:03.450
A Ashcraft: right and it used to be true to that.
414
00:44:03.480 –> 00:44:07.920
A Ashcraft: You know, you could tell what was made for kids versus what was made for adults, but now you.
415
00:44:07.920 –> 00:44:20.070
A Ashcraft: can’t because adults have adopted children’s aesthetics, as their own so that’s sort of bright colorful cartoony aesthetic I know plenty of people in their 40s who love that stuff.
416
00:44:20.310 –> 00:44:22.290
Shlomo Sher: Sure right, you know and.
417
00:44:23.490 –> 00:44:27.330
Shlomo Sher: I like that our world has become less stuffy and less.
418
00:44:27.360 –> 00:44:29.310
Shlomo Sher: A quote unquote adult and serious.
419
00:44:29.370 –> 00:44:34.080
A Ashcraft: Right right you don’t have to like it if you happen to like hot wheels.
420
00:44:34.290 –> 00:44:39.480
A Ashcraft: Right, as I do i’m not shunned as an adult for liking, a children’s toy.
421
00:44:39.840 –> 00:44:45.120
Shlomo Sher: Right right yeah I mean we you know we’ve clearly progress as a society right.
422
00:44:45.360 –> 00:44:45.510
A Ashcraft: Now.
423
00:44:46.020 –> 00:44:49.800
A Ashcraft: it’s also opened us up to this like these dangers right.
424
00:44:49.800 –> 00:44:50.100
Shlomo Sher: well.
425
00:44:50.520 –> 00:44:53.370
A Ashcraft: You can’t tell what is it is this made for a kid or is that not.
426
00:44:53.370 –> 00:44:54.120
A Ashcraft: right for a kid.
427
00:44:54.750 –> 00:45:06.090
Shlomo Sher: yeah and that’s a that’s a really good point um I wanted, so I have this thing that that I use in class and I want to, so I tell a four game companies and I kind of want to.
428
00:45:07.860 –> 00:45:13.320
Shlomo Sher: throw that into the mix so okay here before we ever to I don’t think we’ve ever talked about this.
429
00:45:13.500 –> 00:45:26.160
Shlomo Sher: No, I don’t think so okay so here’s the first one gimmicks markets again two young children, believing that it will be used responsibly, because of adequate protection is provided by their parents are caretakers.
430
00:45:26.580 –> 00:45:31.590
Shlomo Sher: But their parents are caretakers don’t actually protect them and the kids get harmed.
431
00:45:31.950 –> 00:45:34.410
A Ashcraft: And and gimmicks knows this is hypothetical company.
432
00:45:34.740 –> 00:45:36.390
A Ashcraft: Does those oh it doesn’t know.
433
00:45:36.480 –> 00:45:40.110
Shlomo Sher: It doesn’t know it right in things that parents will protect kids but.
434
00:45:41.610 –> 00:45:43.710
Shlomo Sher: They actually don’t and the kids do get harmed.
435
00:45:44.160 –> 00:45:50.940
Shlomo Sher: Okay, and here’s the second one so swarm markets, a similar game to kids.
436
00:45:51.960 –> 00:45:59.310
Shlomo Sher: But it believes that the parents should protect them, but they probably won’t so they believe the kids will probably get hired.
437
00:46:01.650 –> 00:46:04.620
Shlomo Sher: A third company calling it womb.
438
00:46:06.150 –> 00:46:08.820
Shlomo Sher: Markets I do a side hustle picking up a.
439
00:46:08.850 –> 00:46:09.600
video game company.
440
00:46:11.670 –> 00:46:26.040
Shlomo Sher: Markets a similar game to adults but it so it’s not targeting kids it’s targets adults, but if believes that young kids will probably be harmed because they’re going to get access to this game.
441
00:46:27.270 –> 00:46:38.700
Shlomo Sher: Think about how like what teenager does not have access to gta five let’s say right right or any game when it comes to teenagers even more slower than that right.
442
00:46:39.780 –> 00:46:58.740
Shlomo Sher: And, assuming that you know the game is harmful right they think that would they’re not targeting kids but they think the game will harm kids because again parents will not prevent their kids from playing it and then you have rapid and rapid they market a similar game to children.
443
00:47:00.330 –> 00:47:12.210
Shlomo Sher: And they purposely try to make sure that parents can’t protect their kids so they tried to kind of make let’s say the parental controls confusing or.
444
00:47:13.200 –> 00:47:32.280
Shlomo Sher: Maybe you know hide them already not have parental controls, but they purposely try to undermine any protection that the parents might might give them okay um okay so notice we’ve got kind of we’ve got a situation where, in some sense parents fail in all of these.
445
00:47:32.850 –> 00:47:33.930
Shlomo Sher: Sure, but.
446
00:47:34.230 –> 00:47:42.420
Shlomo Sher: Look at the game companies themselves may do you think that gimmicks does anything wrong right so give me the first one.
447
00:47:42.630 –> 00:47:44.130
A Ashcraft: yeah gimmicks was the first one.
448
00:47:46.170 –> 00:47:50.730
A Ashcraft: gimmicks is trying to is has this sort of naive a today.
449
00:47:52.770 –> 00:47:59.340
A Ashcraft: That I don’t buy and the current age of of of how much knowledge people have about their Apps.
450
00:48:00.180 –> 00:48:00.660
Shlomo Sher: So.
451
00:48:00.930 –> 00:48:03.420
A Ashcraft: So they’re they’re pretending they don’t know but they know.
452
00:48:03.810 –> 00:48:05.340
A Ashcraft: So I don’t know I really don’t buy it.
453
00:48:05.610 –> 00:48:16.620
Shlomo Sher: So so let’s say let’s say they generally don’t know let’s say you said let’s say they really are naive right, but maybe you can say they’re negligent here that they should know.
454
00:48:16.800 –> 00:48:17.460
A Ashcraft: yeah they should.
455
00:48:17.490 –> 00:48:22.770
A Ashcraft: They if they don’t know they should know, and if they are saying they don’t know they’re probably lying.
456
00:48:23.010 –> 00:48:23.970
Shlomo Sher: Right, I mean maybe.
457
00:48:24.390 –> 00:48:27.150
A Ashcraft: I think pretty pretty poorly of them right.
458
00:48:27.180 –> 00:48:35.400
Shlomo Sher: Maybe they’re like you know young developers young indie developers and they don’t have kids and they haven’t thought about kids and right.
459
00:48:36.270 –> 00:48:43.890
Shlomo Sher: So no sweat you still might say okay they’re negligent right people in this industry should should have an idea by now that something like this is going to happen.
460
00:48:46.080 –> 00:49:00.120
Shlomo Sher: Now, what about so now look at swarm right so swarm is the one that they’re like look its parents responsibility kids are going to get hurt but that’s not on us right right it’s on parents well, what do you think about that.
461
00:49:01.800 –> 00:49:06.120
A Ashcraft: um I don’t have a lot of respect for that, because they know.
462
00:49:07.710 –> 00:49:13.650
A Ashcraft: or they they have a good probability that they that they know that they’re going to harm children.
463
00:49:14.100 –> 00:49:16.830
Shlomo Sher: know in this case, they believe that they’re going to have kids.
464
00:49:16.950 –> 00:49:17.880
Shlomo Sher: Well, it probably.
465
00:49:18.060 –> 00:49:18.570
Shlomo Sher: Probably.
466
00:49:18.750 –> 00:49:25.380
A Ashcraft: Probably i’m i’m i’m going to give that a 5050 plus percent chance right with because of the word, probably.
467
00:49:25.620 –> 00:49:28.230
Shlomo Sher: Sure yeah let’s say you know let’s say.
468
00:49:28.320 –> 00:49:29.070
A Ashcraft: They don’t know.
469
00:49:30.480 –> 00:49:35.010
A Ashcraft: They don’t know for sure that it’s going to harm kids but it’s probably going to harm kids.
470
00:49:35.160 –> 00:49:38.280
A Ashcraft: Right um, but they are but they’re leaving it up to parents.
471
00:49:38.820 –> 00:49:39.570
Shlomo Sher: Right they’re saying.
472
00:49:39.600 –> 00:49:41.940
A Ashcraft: it’s not saying it doesn’t say here whether or not they’re.
473
00:49:42.180 –> 00:49:44.010
A Ashcraft: Helping or hindering parents.
474
00:49:44.670 –> 00:49:45.180
Shlomo Sher: Neither one.
475
00:49:45.210 –> 00:49:48.510
A Ashcraft: Understand that so they’re just well, I mean.
476
00:49:49.980 –> 00:49:52.740
A Ashcraft: I don’t know that you can do neither right.
477
00:49:54.570 –> 00:49:55.440
Shlomo Sher: Okay.
478
00:49:56.010 –> 00:49:57.120
A Ashcraft: i’m not yeah.
479
00:49:58.350 –> 00:50:00.750
A Ashcraft: Depending on the feature i’m not sure how you could do.
480
00:50:01.290 –> 00:50:09.120
Shlomo Sher: yeah essentially let’s say they put in they put in standard parental well, I mean so many games don’t have any parental control.
481
00:50:09.510 –> 00:50:10.680
Shlomo Sher: not understand it so.
482
00:50:10.890 –> 00:50:18.840
Shlomo Sher: They don’t put in any parental controls, they just kind of make the game and they’re like yeah you know if if kids get hurt which they might.
483
00:50:18.930 –> 00:50:21.690
Shlomo Sher: that’s my parents fault and that’s not that’s not on us.
484
00:50:21.840 –> 00:50:34.110
A Ashcraft: Sure sure right, so I don’t I feel honestly at least they’re not at least they’re not trying to tell me that they’re naive about it.
485
00:50:34.830 –> 00:50:35.250
Shlomo Sher: Okay.
486
00:50:35.340 –> 00:50:37.170
A Ashcraft: not trying to tell me that they don’t know.
487
00:50:37.620 –> 00:50:39.000
Shlomo Sher: Okay, so.
488
00:50:39.270 –> 00:50:42.330
A Ashcraft: All right, so there’s a little bit more honesty to them, I feel.
489
00:50:42.960 –> 00:51:00.420
Shlomo Sher: it’s interesting because part of me, you know part of me likes that kind of view, another part of me thinks that look they’re just rationalizing the fact that they’re harming kids and they’re acting recklessly right and telling them oh yeah it’s just parents fault sure right.
490
00:51:01.680 –> 00:51:06.510
A Ashcraft: Right no gimmicks was also acting recklessly and just pretending not to know.
491
00:51:06.840 –> 00:51:10.110
Shlomo Sher: Well, there were acting net net net negligently.
492
00:51:10.320 –> 00:51:12.000
A Ashcraft: recklessly and negligently.
493
00:51:12.030 –> 00:51:14.160
Shlomo Sher: Well recklessly so.
494
00:51:14.250 –> 00:51:20.850
Shlomo Sher: So the difference between the two is negligence negligence is, you should have known right.
495
00:51:20.970 –> 00:51:23.400
Shlomo Sher: Okay necklaces you knew, but you did it anyway.
496
00:51:25.140 –> 00:51:27.030
Shlomo Sher: Right that’s democrats that that’s.
497
00:51:27.660 –> 00:51:28.560
A Ashcraft: All right, right.
498
00:51:29.370 –> 00:51:30.840
Shlomo Sher: These these are like legal.
499
00:51:30.870 –> 00:51:32.820
Shlomo Sher: designations and all right.
500
00:51:33.900 –> 00:51:41.400
Shlomo Sher: Right and that’s kind of the idea when you think of breakfast right you’ve got a home for product and you’re like yeah let’s release it any way we can make some money.
501
00:51:41.580 –> 00:51:43.050
A Ashcraft: Right, it might not hurt anybody.
502
00:51:43.590 –> 00:51:49.260
Shlomo Sher: Right, it might not notice right and that could be a rationalization that you tell yourself right right.
503
00:51:51.150 –> 00:51:56.790
Shlomo Sher: Though I mean maybe it also could be that look you’ve already.
504
00:51:57.180 –> 00:52:10.200
Shlomo Sher: You went above and beyond your like we installed these parental controls we did all these things that parents can use but parents or parents are just not we just don’t think parents are just going to use them, but we did our part.
505
00:52:10.650 –> 00:52:23.250
Shlomo Sher: Right and i’m a lot more sympathetic to that you know cuz I I i’m not really sure what to think about that if if that’s the case It just seems to me that there’s an a problem with the whole industry.
506
00:52:23.640 –> 00:52:24.000
A Ashcraft: yeah.
507
00:52:24.330 –> 00:52:25.980
A Ashcraft: And they are marketing this to kids.
508
00:52:26.220 –> 00:52:27.480
A Ashcraft: yeah missing kids.
509
00:52:27.570 –> 00:52:31.350
A Ashcraft: Right, knowing that it’s possible that these kids will be harmed.
510
00:52:32.310 –> 00:52:44.160
Shlomo Sher: Right and again like and taking steps let’s look in in one version of this right, but one version right let’s say they took steps that you know, to get past the tools to protect the kids.
511
00:52:44.340 –> 00:52:45.480
Shlomo Sher: But they still don’t think.
512
00:52:45.540 –> 00:52:46.890
Shlomo Sher: That the parents will make use of them.
513
00:52:47.430 –> 00:53:06.750
Shlomo Sher: Right right so notice this could be, I think this could be evil, this could be bad you know less bad or maybe benign maybe maybe it’s fine depending and maybe how much they do themselves, what about womb right so they’re like you’re you know same game, but your marketing it to adults.
514
00:53:06.900 –> 00:53:12.360
Shlomo Sher: Right you’re not marketing to kids but you think that parents kids will be heard, because parents aren’t.
515
00:53:13.440 –> 00:53:15.390
Shlomo Sher: You know, protecting their kids.
516
00:53:16.500 –> 00:53:24.750
A Ashcraft: Right so again, a step forward, because at least they’re not actually marketing to the to the people that can be harmed by it.
517
00:53:25.650 –> 00:53:29.040
A Ashcraft: Right, so a step one step up.
518
00:53:30.300 –> 00:53:32.130
A Ashcraft: But not that much of a step up.
519
00:53:34.320 –> 00:53:35.790
Shlomo Sher: um well it’s interesting.
520
00:53:36.060 –> 00:53:37.410
A Ashcraft: To do not doing anything.
521
00:53:38.580 –> 00:53:41.340
A Ashcraft: To prevent children from being harmed by their product.
522
00:53:41.790 –> 00:53:45.090
Shlomo Sher: Though I didn’t say that right it’s possible that they are doing something.
523
00:53:45.420 –> 00:53:46.680
Shlomo Sher: they’re just not doing.
524
00:53:47.160 –> 00:53:50.520
Shlomo Sher: it’s interesting right whatever it is they’re doing it’s not enough.
525
00:53:51.540 –> 00:53:59.610
Shlomo Sher: And again notice, maybe they’re not doing anything, maybe they are doing something, maybe they’re doing a lot but it’s still going to end up hurting kids.
526
00:53:59.910 –> 00:54:01.050
Shlomo Sher: Right right.
527
00:54:01.380 –> 00:54:02.430
Shlomo Sher: At one point.
528
00:54:02.550 –> 00:54:09.180
Shlomo Sher: So let’s so again imagine again like gta let’s say gta hurts kids which it doesn’t hurt kids as far as I know, but I don’t know.
529
00:54:10.650 –> 00:54:29.730
Shlomo Sher: Right um you know I wouldn’t want I don’t know what you know rock star could do to not get you know to not get kids to play I don’t have a clue I mean you know, and I certainly wouldn’t want gta gone right because because of this.
530
00:54:30.210 –> 00:54:34.920
A Ashcraft: I think down to there’s a there’s a threshold of danger.
531
00:54:36.180 –> 00:54:40.680
A Ashcraft: right we we allow we allow some things to be dangerous.
532
00:54:43.800 –> 00:54:46.740
A Ashcraft: And and we’re fine with it we’re fine with things being.
533
00:54:47.100 –> 00:54:54.660
A Ashcraft: Somewhat dangerous and and but there’s a there’s a threshold to that right at some arrives too dangerous and so.
534
00:54:55.980 –> 00:55:08.130
A Ashcraft: So figuring out the specifics of like what is the danger what what what is the potential, what is the possibility of danger here is going to be, I think, important for understanding all four of these.
535
00:55:08.760 –> 00:55:16.920
Shlomo Sher: um yeah you know, and this is why you know that, essentially, the, the greater the harm and the greater the possibility of harm.
536
00:55:17.220 –> 00:55:20.310
Shlomo Sher: The more we seem to think that steps unnecessary.
537
00:55:20.670 –> 00:55:21.570
Shlomo Sher: Right right.
538
00:55:21.660 –> 00:55:22.620
Shlomo Sher: Right so.
539
00:55:23.400 –> 00:55:27.180
A Ashcraft: what point do we do we put a handrail on a on a set of stairs.
540
00:55:27.750 –> 00:55:30.390
A Ashcraft: Right right three stairs five stairs.
541
00:55:30.570 –> 00:55:31.410
A Ashcraft: Several years.
542
00:55:33.300 –> 00:55:38.820
Shlomo Sher: You know i’m assuming that God i’m assuming that someone has actually studied this issue.
543
00:55:39.360 –> 00:55:43.080
Shlomo Sher: This is like i’m sure stairs i’m sure there’s specifically right.
544
00:55:44.220 –> 00:55:57.690
Shlomo Sher: Right and in certain contexts, and you know you’re you’re indoors there might be different than an outdoor stir because of potential wetness and issues like that right, but notice right to me, obviously, if there’s a bad day here it’s the last one.
545
00:55:58.110 –> 00:56:10.770
Shlomo Sher: Right rapid and right and rapid this idea of you know I can’t imagine any version of rapid where you can excuse undermining the ability of parents to protect their kids.
546
00:56:10.890 –> 00:56:16.650
A Ashcraft: Right they’re going out of their way to to prevent parents from being able to protect their children.
547
00:56:17.310 –> 00:56:23.130
Shlomo Sher: Right and notice and you don’t have to go very far for this, you can you know the nag factor and marketing.
548
00:56:23.640 –> 00:56:34.920
Shlomo Sher: hmm right, the idea of raid the it’s the it’s been around for a while now right the the tactic of getting kids to nag for something right for their parents so right so it’s.
549
00:56:35.460 –> 00:56:46.500
Shlomo Sher: You know you’re, and this is a something that is pretty big and marketing in general right trying to turn that know the parents initial know.
550
00:56:46.830 –> 00:56:52.740
Shlomo Sher: trying to get the parent that the kid to nag as much as possible till they turn that no into a yes right right.
551
00:56:53.070 –> 00:57:06.900
Shlomo Sher: And where products are placed in a supermarket right has things to do with that the way commercials are designed might have something to do with that so, mind you, this is not necessarily a video game thing at all and I don’t know if any video companies that actually do this.
552
00:57:07.050 –> 00:57:08.160
A Ashcraft: No, I can’t think of any.
553
00:57:08.490 –> 00:57:12.270
Shlomo Sher: right but it’s like I want to shake my fist at them, you know if anyone wanted to that.
554
00:57:13.800 –> 00:57:14.160
A Ashcraft: All right.
555
00:57:14.310 –> 00:57:22.800
A Ashcraft: Well, without I mean, so I just had a funny idea what if there’s a game that teaches you how to be a salesperson.
556
00:57:24.150 –> 00:57:24.600
Shlomo Sher: Okay.
557
00:57:24.870 –> 00:57:27.000
A Ashcraft: there’s a lot of sales jobs in this world.
558
00:57:27.210 –> 00:57:30.450
A Ashcraft: Right, and you know it’s good to teach kids to trade.
559
00:57:30.570 –> 00:57:40.530
A Ashcraft: Right, so how about a video game that teaches you teaches kids to be a salesperson by teaching these these useful sales techniques, like the nag.
560
00:57:41.040 –> 00:57:42.450
Shlomo Sher: Oh, I love it.
561
00:57:42.810 –> 00:57:43.950
A Ashcraft: I love that a.
562
00:57:44.610 –> 00:57:47.550
A Ashcraft: Good game, or is that an ethically horrible horrible game.
563
00:57:47.670 –> 00:57:55.620
Shlomo Sher: it’s an ethically complex game depends on how you do it it’s oh man that would be a fun for fun one for us to do an episode designing.
564
00:57:56.940 –> 00:58:00.300
Shlomo Sher: I can, I can think of a lot of different ways, a game like that could go.
565
00:58:02.160 –> 00:58:08.010
Shlomo Sher: yeah I mean selling yourself, you know i’m also thinking of my of my like students and their need to sell themselves.
566
00:58:08.190 –> 00:58:08.520
A Ashcraft: mm hmm.
567
00:58:08.580 –> 00:58:12.630
Shlomo Sher: And how much of their careers depends on selling themselves.
568
00:58:12.660 –> 00:58:15.960
A Ashcraft: These yeah or pitching projects or anything I mean how many.
569
00:58:16.230 –> 00:58:29.250
A Ashcraft: How many pitch meetings have I gone into pitching games to people, you know higher up the chain for me if I had a way, if I had if I had knowledge about how to turn initial nose into yeses i’d probably get a lot more games made.
570
00:58:29.520 –> 00:58:32.760
Shlomo Sher: right man, this is like yeah a kid’s life hack.
571
00:58:33.120 –> 00:58:33.480
A Ashcraft: mm hmm.
572
00:58:34.830 –> 00:58:42.060
Shlomo Sher: Okay, so let’s let’s wrap it up, but what what, what do you think we can conclude from from our conversation today.
573
00:58:44.070 –> 00:58:47.100
A Ashcraft: um parenting is hard and.
574
00:58:49.230 –> 00:58:49.710
A Ashcraft: yeah.
575
00:58:52.110 –> 00:58:55.380
A Ashcraft: it’s it’s certainly a complex issue.
576
00:58:57.000 –> 00:59:04.260
A Ashcraft: Right, how much of it is how much how much of this is the responsibility of the parents and if it’s if there’s any responsibility at all, and the game companies.
577
00:59:04.680 –> 00:59:16.260
A Ashcraft: I tend to think that there is, but I also think that it’s because that it’s not only a good not only a good idea for their responsibility but also good business in the long term.
578
00:59:17.880 –> 00:59:20.220
A Ashcraft: You know, to care for your to care for your players.
579
00:59:21.690 –> 00:59:25.170
Shlomo Sher: To me, what would really kind of stuck out beside the fact that.
580
00:59:25.740 –> 00:59:39.660
Shlomo Sher: I think it’s really important to realize just the variety of parenting situation out there and how incredibly complicated, this is from a parental point of view, but you know when you said that that first company was naive that really stuck with me.
581
00:59:40.110 –> 00:59:41.670
Shlomo Sher: Right this idea that.
582
00:59:41.910 –> 00:59:49.200
Shlomo Sher: You know if companies think that parents are just going to be there, you know standing over kids and watching what they’re doing and protecting them.
583
00:59:49.620 –> 00:59:57.690
Shlomo Sher: That ain’t gonna happen that’s just not realistic and there’s something negligent about and and this idea potentially rationalizing.
584
00:59:58.230 –> 01:00:15.630
Shlomo Sher: right that you know parents will take care of this it’s you know it’s the parents responsibility, I, I think that the at the end of the day, you know we’re all kind of in this where we’re all kind of in the in the gaming ecosystem we’re all kind of in this.
585
01:00:16.830 –> 01:00:22.920
Shlomo Sher: You know, social web where we’re interacting together and companies definitely have a role to play.
586
01:00:24.150 –> 01:00:24.390
A Ashcraft: yeah.
587
01:00:24.450 –> 01:00:37.170
Shlomo Sher: You know i’m not clear exactly what specifically the role would be, because I think it might depend on you know the kind of things that we talked about right the you know how serious as the harm.
588
01:00:37.650 –> 01:00:40.290
Shlomo Sher: Right what’s the likelihood of that harm happening.
589
01:00:41.490 –> 01:01:00.120
Shlomo Sher: How our parents aware of that harm, you would think that any company that thinks that their game might really harmed is would least try to do something about that right, and I would hope the game industry as a whole, you know looks at stuff like this.
590
01:01:01.560 –> 01:01:02.190
A Ashcraft: I hope so.
591
01:01:03.450 –> 01:01:08.490
A Ashcraft: yeah yeah and not just as another opportunity to sell somebody.
592
01:01:08.820 –> 01:01:12.240
Shlomo Sher: Yes, well, you sold me on that and the SI.
593
01:01:13.590 –> 01:01:15.690
Shlomo Sher: Alright right good podcast GP.
594
01:01:15.960 –> 01:01:18.240
Shlomo Sher: Good podcast play nice everyone.
